Forum:Upgrade Disambugation Page
Lancer and I came to a disagreement about what to do with the Mass Effect 2 pages Upgrade Guide and Research. He believed that they should stay named the way they are, and I came to agree with his logic. I proposed a disambugation page for "Upgrades" to clear any potential user confusion on the matter. There are four "upgrade" pages for Mass Effect (Armor, Weapons, Ammo, Grenades) and two relevant pages for Mass Effect 2 (Research, Upgrade Guide), and there will be at least one for Mass Effect 3. "Upgrade" is a page that doesn't exist, even as a redirect. By installing a disambugation page, users who search for the term "Upgrades", possibly not knowing that the relevant Mass Effect 2 page is named "Research" (I did not even know this until today) would neatly be presented with the relevant articles for all games. Lancer insisted I create a project discussion, because disambugation pages are apparantley not often used on the wiki, and when things such as they appear without community discussion, there apparantley tends to be conflict, so I agreed that in the interest of doing things as cleanly as possible, a project page would make sense. And here it is. --[[User:FoxtrotZero|'FoxtrotZero']] 21:41, January 16, 2012 (UTC) Voting Voting has concluded. Please do not edit this section. Support #-- Commdor (Talk) 00:05, February 2, 2012 (UTC) # JakePT 08:14, February 3, 2012 (UTC) Neutral Oppose Comments I have no objection to the idea. -- Commdor (Talk) 22:41, January 16, 2012 (UTC) :I do find that sort of humorous. Anyway, it should go without saying that I also support it. --[[User:FoxtrotZero|'FoxtrotZero']] 22:44, January 16, 2012 (UTC) ::Not much else to say, really. I don't think there would be problem if you made the page right now, I've done the same with other disambigs like Trooper and Pyro. If you'd rather wait for input, though, you're certainly welcome to do so. Are you planning on making a mock-up of the page? -- Commdor (Talk) 22:59, January 16, 2012 (UTC) :::What I think should be on the page is the links, divided by games, each with a short description of what the page contains and it is about. I think that description should be limited to about two sentences and no more. However, there should be more organization than just a bullet pointed list and there should be some flow to it as a bullet pointed list is a bit of a turn off, even on a disamb page. Lancer1289 23:07, January 16, 2012 (UTC) ::::So do I have a green light, then? --[[User:FoxtrotZero|'FoxtrotZero']] 23:57, January 16, 2012 (UTC) :I support this idea. Here's a very rough idea of how I think it should work.JakePT 06:58, January 17, 2012 (UTC) ::Should note that the ME3 section is for illustrative purposes only.JakePT 06:59, January 17, 2012 (UTC) :::What I see is exactly what I don't like about Disamb pages, a simple bullet pointed list. Granted that's really all they can be, but I'd like to see more in terms of the descriptions for each page rather than just four words, while accurate, could be expanded a bit more to make the page flow better. Lancer1289 12:19, January 17, 2012 (UTC) ::::What you don't like about disambiguation pages is precisely what makes them useful. They're not articles, they are effectively curated search results. Adding paragraphs of information isn't going to help. ::::I want to point to the Dragon Age Wiki, which is considerably easier to navigate than our wiki, embarrassingly so. Entirely due to our avoidance of disambiguation. Our crappy Disambiguation and Redirect policies make the search box on this wiki almost entirely useless. ::::All we need is that when someone searches 'Upgrades' they receive a small list with small descriptions so they can find what they need. Not a treatise on all the upgrade mechanics for each game. That information belongs on the articles that the disambiguation page would link to. ::::The problem here is that this wiki is still a Mass Effect 1 wiki, with ME2 info bolted on. When ME3 comes out and someone searches 'Powers' they're going to be redirected to ME2 powers. What should happen is that they get a very small page where they can quickly and easily specify whether they meant ME2 or ME3. ::::Same goes with Upgrades, all that needs to happen is that they get a short page where they can specify whether they meant ME1, ME2 or ME3 upgrades. Part of the problem is that ME1 has a lot of Upgrades related pages, but that's beside the point here.JakePT 06:53, January 19, 2012 (UTC) :::::You misinterpret what I said. What I said was I'd just like to be expanded a bit. I didn't ask for much, just a sentence that is all. Not just four words. I don't think four words is good enough, and it wouldn't include "a treatise on all the upgrade mechanics for each game". Here’s what I suggest for Armor Upgrades. Currently "Upgrades for Armor", well that could lead to some confusion if you think about it. I would suggest something like "A list of Armor upgrades, including descriptions and statistics, for the Armors in Mass Effect". Just because it’s under the Mass Effect heading, and while you may think it is redundant, some people don’t look at headings on disamb pages, they just read the descriptions. That's all I'm asking for. Just a simple sentence, perhaps two, but much more than three or four words. :::::I never said I'm opposed to this, I like the idea, I'm just saying that the descriptions could be expanded a bit. Lancer1289 13:19, January 19, 2012 (UTC) ::::::Ok, I understand. I misunderstood what you were getting at. Makes sense.JakePT 07:18, January 26, 2012 (UTC) :I'm with Jake on this one. I understand where Lancer is coming from - what he wants is a bit more information to be a bit more helpful. I have a problem with that for two reasons. The first being, I simply don't see how you can fit the necessary amount of information in any more than a few words, not without being a bit verbose and clumsy, and that's more or less the antithesis of disamb pages. I also like his sandbox mockup, and while what I had in mind was a bit more basic, his flows very well, and were I to implement one now, I would change very little from his proposed design. :I want to say this in the most no-hard-feelings way possible, but I can't seem to tweak the words in my favor; I believe you're losing 2 to 1 on the design. My personal reccomendation to you is to make your own mockup and illustrate how you would expand on the topics. My disagreement comes from a lack of understanding of what you want to do, or how you want to do it cleanly and smoothly. :Also, I have to agree with Jake. Many parts of the Wiki flow like a brick, and I think I might take it upon myself to draft a proposal for making things as streamlined and accessible as possible; which I guarantee, if fully acted out, would likely require some page overhauls and the addition of some disambg pages. --[[User:FoxtrotZero|'FoxtrotZero']] 00:13, January 21, 2012 (UTC) I've updated my Upgrades disambiguation sandbox. I think it should satisfy Lancer's concerns.JakePT 13:14, January 26, 2012 (UTC) :That's better. Lancer1289 17:58, January 26, 2012 (UTC) ::I also agree with Jake's example. If there are no further comments, I'll put creating the page to a vote tomorrow. -- Commdor (Talk) 21:25, January 29, 2012 (UTC) I've opened the project for voting on whether or not to create a new Upgrades article as proposed in User:JakePT's sandbox. -- Commdor (Talk) 00:05, February 2, 2012 (UTC) Implementation of an Upgrades disambiguation article has been approved 2-0. The article will be created shortly. -- Commdor (Talk) 18:51, February 10, 2012 (UTC)